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Episode Description
Dr. Carlos Zalaquett is an internationally recognized expert in therapeutic outcomes assessment and mental health counseling, with deep expertise spanning psychology, biofeedback, and neurofeedback. Across decades in clinical practice, teaching, supervision, and leadership—including serving as President of the Pennsylvania Mental Health Counselors Association, Past President of the Sociedad Interamericana de Psicología, and President-Elect of the American Psychological Association’s Division 52: Society for Global Psychology—Carlos has focused on one thing: improving training and interventions by measuring what works and why.
In this episode, Carlos makes the case for video as a core component of counselor education—not as a “nice to have,” but as the backbone of supervision, skills development, and outcomes-based research. He shares how recording sessions transforms training from vague, memory-based reflection into precise review: students and supervisors can revisit specific moments, identify strengths and growth areas, and track progress from the first session through termination. Carlos also explains how secure, consent-driven video capture supports ethical practice and removes barriers compared to earlier “shoulder camera” approaches—making review immediate, practical, and far less disruptive to the therapeutic relationship.
The conversation goes deeper into how video plus client self-report data can strengthen decision-making and fairness in supervision—evaluating performance with evidence rather than assumptions—and how clinics can evolve into applied research training clinics that demonstrate clinical impact to stakeholders. Carlos also looks ahead to what’s next: AI-enabled transcription and analysis, nonverbal synchrony research, and faster insight generation that could accelerate both supervision and outcomes research. He closes with the leadership principle that guides his career—“lift as you climb”—and why building others up is the real legacy of effective education and clinical work.
"The more opportunities we have to review all the work we do, the higher the likelihood of success, improvement of techniques, advancement of the profession, and publication of outcomes."
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00:00:01:18 - 00:00:33:16
Unknown
Welcome to the On Record podcast. This is a podcast where we talk with professionals and subject matter experts from diverse markets and disciplines that are using video and audio and innovative ways to support their organization's objectives. My name is Mike Anzalone and my co-host is Carmen Hawk. Today our guest is Carlos Zalaquett. Carlos is the former professor of educational psychology, counseling and special education at Penn State University.
00:00:33:18 - 00:01:08:09
Unknown
Carlos is also internationally recognized as a recognized expert on therapeutic outcomes assessments, mental health counseling, psychology, biofeedback, and neurofeedback. Welcome to the podcast, Carlos. Thank you. So good to be with you today. Yeah, we're really excited to have you on the podcast. And before we kind of hop into the conversation, can you tell us a little bit about yourself and your journey throughout your career and the highlights of what you've been able to accomplish so far?
00:01:08:10 - 00:01:51:07
Unknown
I have a long story. In in counseling and psychotherapy, really, because I initially began, as a student of philosophy, and I always saw psychology and counseling as the runaway daughters of the larger discipline philosophy until I took some courses. And I got fascinated. You know, I have a set of instructors and faculty who talk about the mind, the soul, the behavior.
00:01:51:09 - 00:02:22:05
Unknown
So I ended up not only learning as much as I could, volunteering to be a TA for their courses, but also training animals in a zoo, you know, training animals in laboratory using applications in every day, activities. It became my passion. So all of a sudden I got a degree, in psychology in Chile. Then I came here to get a masters in clinical psychology.
00:02:22:10 - 00:03:05:11
Unknown
Then a doctorate on behavioral neuroscience. And in every step of the way, there were new platforms that open in front of me. And, of course, my practice was very successful. And I have to say, maybe I should have stayed with that. And now I would be much richer than I am. But I decided to go and teach because I thought this type of, well of information possibilities, tentative contributions of reconstructing of a new world couldn't be kept for the few.
00:03:05:13 - 00:03:54:04
Unknown
So the idea was not only to go back and teach supervise, but also to manage and lead organizations. In fact, I'm still there. President of the Pennsylvania Mental Health Counselors Association. Past President of the Sociedad Interamericana de Psicología, and the President elect for Division 52, which is the society for Global Psychology of the American Psychological Association. So, in all these platforms, my idea was to find ways to train better and to solve meaning, provide services and interventions with good outcomes.
00:03:54:06 - 00:04:44:15
Unknown
And that's what I've been doing for the last. You don't want to know how many years because there are way too many. One of the things that I had early on, and this will connect with us, was to record with a tape recorder. My sessions and later on with a handheld camera. When we have those those cameras coming up, I will record client and then we will review those videos together to understand in more depth, to dig in about what was happening, what were the possibilities, what were the strengths and how to integrate them to make a new response for a better outcome.
00:04:44:17 - 00:05:17:00
Unknown
So, as you can imagine, speaking with you all. Is a blessing because you work on a platform that have helped me accomplish those goals. That part of my history and why you see that I'm having this conversation with you. Carlos, can can you share some examples of how you've been able to use video in terms of of training your students or researchers?
00:05:17:01 - 00:06:01:06
Unknown
That's incredible. The the, program, I was, in until in June happened to have a clinic, you know, the the Herr Clinic and the clinic has every room equipped with video recording systems. And they are all saved into a hub where students, faculty and supervisors can go and visit or revisit the specific sessions. So then became central for supervision.
00:06:01:07 - 00:06:27:00
Unknown
Of course, we use it also for training because once you find a way to demonstrate a particular skill, if that is saved, it can be used in your lectures, especially in courses like practicum supervision externships, where the students can come back and provide an analysis of what they did. So it's not just a self reflection based on memory.
00:06:27:00 - 00:07:01:05
Unknown
They can revisit the session and actually make an even better, quote unquote, self reflection, a more accurate, you know, analysis of what they need. And then we come in supervisors to watch the session and then watch the session with the student highlighting the strengths and competencies. And also bringing to the forefront areas for further improvement. So I use those videos in class and with my student.
00:07:01:05 - 00:07:35:19
Unknown
But always remember we all ethical and consent from the client. The clients know that this is a training clinic. And so that give us the faculty and the student the possibility of really revise. Now the second major application was to review the sessions, to analyze what changes, what happened from session one to the final session.
00:07:35:21 - 00:08:06:07
Unknown
How does the client looks like and have a chance to assess outcome, which is one of my current, main project. And in fact, we were able to accomplish that in situations that were quite interesting. For example, one of my colleagues said to me, we have a counselor with an accent, ha ha ha. I'm sorry, you are telling me, which is I’m a faculty with an accent.
00:08:06:09 - 00:08:31:04
Unknown
and I don't think that the student is doing well, blah, blah blah. I think that the student need to be removed. Wait a minute it’s an international student? Isn't that a little bit drastic? So I said, you know, why don't you build the case? I will look into the situation and I will get back to you or with you and then we can discuss options.
00:08:31:06 - 00:08:57:21
Unknown
So what I did is I went through the VALT. I went through the recordings, and I realized that this student happens to have a large number of client. They all keep coming. The sessions seem to be constructive, and when they look at the self report of the client, they were responding in a way that demonstrated that they were improving.
00:08:58:00 - 00:09:28:04
Unknown
So I sat down with my colleague and I said, you know, I really, value your concern, but I have to say this, I don't have a way to support any actions because here is the data. Well, you wouldn't be able to do that if you're don’t have all these recordings. So that's another way. So supervision, training of skills.
00:09:28:06 - 00:09:59:11
Unknown
Supporting case work and also supporting research. So I, I have taken big advantage of your system what can I say. can I just say, Carlos, that you are very passionate. It comes right through the screen. I can feel how much that teaching and also continuing your own education, how much it means to you. I'm curious, you mentioned the early adoption you had with a handheld video recorder.
00:09:59:13 - 00:10:23:14
Unknown
And reviewing those tapes versus now having a different system. I'm using the VALT system, for example. Can you tell us the difference and the feedback you receive from clients or those your supervising then versus now? Is that much more commonplace? I'm just curious to hear how that evolution looked. Great question. Because this is this is not a big evolution in a number of ways.
00:10:23:14 - 00:10:56:04
Unknown
But I have to tell you, those who are being recording machines that you that you need to hold on your shoulder. Today we have a camera on a corner of the room. Second, you know those tape not always worked. So even though you did the recording, that didn't mean that you will be able to see them again. And to watch them, you need to have these huge machines with those big VHS tapes.
00:10:56:06 - 00:11:28:03
Unknown
And so it was pretty innovative, but pretty overwhelming. Plus you mess up in terms of capturing a lot of the things that you were recording now were during this session. But your attention that should always be on the client was split between the camera and whatever the client was saying. So without having all that equipment.
00:11:28:05 - 00:11:50:08
Unknown
That was manuals. You can have this automated system, you can go have decision in the best possible way without distracting yourself with all the mechanics of these. And at the end of the session, you can actually say, would you like to review a moment that I and just click on the laptop to show the person the, the connection and all of that?
00:11:50:10 - 00:12:20:01
Unknown
Now how is that for magic? Some kids will never know the magic of VHS to digital. It's okay. Some someone, some people will never know. You guys are too young. But I can tell you my wife. I have changed countries and states more times than you will ever know. And at the end of the day she will say, wait, are you still carrying those boxes with those big tapes?
00:12:20:02 - 00:12:48:17
Unknown
Vintage? Yeah. When do you have time to watch them? And I’m going, These are my treasure. At some point that will sit down. So if they became a heavy burden, your system allow these to be stored and be accessed in an ethical and appropriate way. You know, from any point in the world, if you have the secure platform to do that, what can be more exciting than that?
00:12:48:19 - 00:13:14:04
Unknown
So all of a sudden, you can revisit the sessions with the client in place. One of my clients said to me once, I will tell you that blah, blah, blah. And I said, look, I don't I don't have any recollection. Let's go back to the session and check, to see cuz I'm really concerned that I, I truly let you down and I want to learn.
00:13:14:04 - 00:13:21:03
Unknown
Where did I miss this when we couldn't find it in the session?
00:13:21:05 - 00:13:45:05
Unknown
So the client deeply apologized and oh, I was sure I was convinced that I mentioned this to you. And I said, I, I know it was important to you. It would have been great because I would have done something about that. To fulfill your request, the opposite happens also that a client will come and say, you know, last session was outstanding.
00:13:45:07 - 00:14:17:03
Unknown
I walk out of that session and I went straight to my partner, you know, and we sat down and ironed out all I wouldn't be able to do isn't unless you you you say what you said. Im going, what in the world did I say. you better go watch that again. Yeah. What was the critical the triggering point. So I can go back to this session and review to see where the magic happens.
00:14:17:04 - 00:14:50:14
Unknown
So that has made my my own training, you know, much, much better. So I can go back and revisit things that work and understand why they do and things that didn't work, make amends and go back at it again to regain training on those dimensions. So obviously, so is a very constructive situation. I'm sorry for the number of example, but I can give you a bunch of them.
00:14:50:16 - 00:15:13:04
Unknown
I feel like my job is threatened right now. You're very good at this, Carlos. You're extraordinary. Yeah. I was going to ask you, Carlos, in your description of the work that you've done with video, you've kind of implied that you use video for both qualitative and quantitative kind of research. Do you feel that video can support either one of those methodologies?
00:15:13:04 - 00:15:48:00
Unknown
Do you have a preference of how you use video to support data collection and research? Oh, what a great question. And I'm going to I'm going to try to restrain myself because from a qualitative point of view, you know, you can analyze every session to understand what were the quote unquote themes and how those themes evolve over time or over sessions in or within the session.
00:15:48:02 - 00:16:34:11
Unknown
And then you can also focus on a particular person and analyze that from a qualitative point of view to understand how change happens. Or in my case, since I am a developmental counseling therapist, and also a micro skill a therapist, in addition to any other denomination, because I don't believe in a single therapy model. And so, I can analyze how the micro skills, you know, work out on a successful session versus a non successful session and understand why, which ones, etc., in a qualitative way.
00:16:34:13 - 00:17:00:18
Unknown
But I can also multiply that by a number of clients, a number of sessions etc. and do quantitative work. In fact, we use a system connected to yours which is the self-report of the client. And we have look at the self-report of the client to find out. Is there a real change from beginning to end, and what do you know?
00:17:00:19 - 00:17:29:16
Unknown
My research with my team not only shows that there is change, but it shows that the change is clinically significant. Because if you are a smoker and you go to my, smoke cessation treatment and you come back at the end and you say, you know, I used to smoke 30 cigarettes a day, now I'm down to three.
00:17:29:17 - 00:17:58:19
Unknown
That will be statistically significant, but you are still at risk of the negative effect of nicotine because you're still smoking. And so change statistically significant change is not always clinically significant. That's an interesting point. And then you can certainly, analyze that. So my students are doing great. Not only I should say, our students are doing great.
00:17:58:19 - 00:18:36:15
Unknown
Not only they promote change. And in a significant, clinically significant way, but also with the comparison between international and national students. And guess what? Both groups have the same rate of success. But here is what we found that can change a little bit. The landscape of what we do. Yes, they were all successful, but some were more successful in improving clients anxiety collaboratively than depression.
00:18:36:16 - 00:19:18:15
Unknown
And vice versa. So we figure these give us an opportunity by the end to say to the student, you are doing very well with this type of disorders. Maybe you need to sharpen your skills for this other type. or you can specialize in what you are or really doing quite well. But also qualitative gave us a chance to look at the tapes and understand that we can use these sessions, analyze them, and by mid-semester say to a trainees, our students in training, you know, you are doing quite well, but here are areas of improvement.
00:19:18:17 - 00:19:56:17
Unknown
We still have the other half of the semester to make improvement. So it's not to just chastise or criticize, but to find ways to get more rounded and competent student to qualitative and quantitative pan out quite well in this process, you mentioned that you kind of started with that 100 pound shoulder webcam. And now when you're not looking at it, there's a real cam.
00:19:56:19 - 00:20:41:15
Unknown
That's right. The vintage real cam vintage cam to you. And you know, having these high def cameras mounted in the rooms during that evolution as technology is improved, what challenges have you come across yourself? Your supervisors, your students in terms of adapting to the new technology that is available? That's a great question. And is the number one reason of concern, on my major complain not all of our students, faculty supervisor and professionals are on board.
00:20:41:17 - 00:21:34:00
Unknown
In fact, there are many different reasons for that. On the one hand, you have what we call stage fright. You know, when you are afraid of seeing yourself in a recording. Number two, the issues of quote unquote, using these type of recordings to instead of, apply them in a constructive educational way, to use them to attack or, criticize, you know, performance or as a way to document, you know, negative issues or which is another major thing, you know, the issue of freedom.
00:21:34:04 - 00:22:03:19
Unknown
I don't like to be taped. I don't want to be in a training place where taping takes place. Well, I think that that's terrible because you are missing a tremendous opportunity. None of these systems are intended to be, punishing, and quite the contrary, they are supposed to be used in a constructive way. And so, yeah, not everybody is on board.
00:22:03:19 - 00:22:43:01
Unknown
And I have to say I'll be happy to sit down with anybody who disagrees and share with them the amount of information we have that demonstrates how relevant using of these systems is. You mentioned ethical capture and, and the essence of, doing things, with protections in place and standards in place so that you can build a comfort with people who might be resistant to the adoption of video or having a recorder or recording of themselves.
00:22:43:03 - 00:23:19:08
Unknown
Would you describe a little bit more about, I know the environment in the framework of the recording system you're using provides that. Is there anything else you put into place? And the other, areas that you lean into when you're maybe making a persuasive argument for video capture that? Well, let me, for the sake of time, let me remind all of us that tele health happens to have a number of constraints, you know, from quote unquote, confirming who's the person, participating and making sure that is the client.
00:23:19:08 - 00:23:55:04
Unknown
Second, in an environment we know disruptions and with no, witnesses or intruders third with clear transcription and encoding that allows for the protected transfer of that information. So only people with the specific, software could see those tapes. And third, with clear agreement from the client. So when I say use video recording, I'm not saying use it in a, in a dictatorial way.
00:23:55:06 - 00:24:22:13
Unknown
Of course, there are clients that may have, a higher level of suspicious ness, or they may have, some sort of concerns about being. Observed. Well, sure, it's called paranoia. And so, in those cases, you will have to have a conversation with that person and over time, hopefully bring him to understand of the benefits and agree to use them.
00:24:22:17 - 00:24:48:21
Unknown
So if you use it with clinical consideration for the best benefit of the client, making sure that these are secure platforms and making sure that the client agrees and you comply with any other, for example, HIPPA regulations, you know, the systems are pretty safe and I believe yours are. I've never saw a break in the system. We have used this system for a long time.
00:24:49:00 - 00:25:19:03
Unknown
Carlos, what do you think is the future of using video, particularly in your field of clinical psychology? Yeah, I actually have to remind you, I. I'm blessed enough to be on the platform of clinical psychology, counseling psychology, and also mental health and counseling, mental health and clinical counseling. The reason I say that is because different than others who keep turf, I really try to integrate all these fields.
00:25:19:05 - 00:25:52:02
Unknown
The demand of mental health is so large that there isn't enough of us to cover. So this idea of only we can do this, you don't. You can only create an opportunity for many people missing access to mental health services. Now, what the future of video recording. I think that it will become larger and larger. Let me, explain this to you.
00:25:52:04 - 00:26:16:02
Unknown
So one day I needed to use a recording, you know, not not from your platform, a recording that, a, colleague of mine send me of a mock interview with one of their colleagues, and they wanted to know if it was good enough as a demonstration of the micro skills. And, of course, they sent it to me.
00:26:16:03 - 00:26:52:01
Unknown
So I'm supposed to be one of the expert on micro skills and what are, you know, I opened the video and I just couldn't get. The sound because it was too low. And so I put transcript and the silly system did transcribe in a creative way. And so I contacted one of my techs and they said, hey, listen, get word to do a transcript of this conversation.
00:26:52:03 - 00:27:25:21
Unknown
And I'm going, what the word has to do with this? Well, what do you know? He did a better job once I learned how to use it. The transcript was great. Now think about this. Now we have all these AI systems. So as you think about these, if I’m having. A lot of time invested on analyzing, producing papers demonstrating what the students can accomplish and all that.
00:27:26:00 - 00:28:10:14
Unknown
Guess what that will be sped up to an exponential of n because all of the system can do those type of analysis, transcription and analysis in fractions of a second. I have a colleague in Germany that developed a software now that you can use to study interaction between the nonverbal interaction between the counselor and the client, and they are able to demonstrate that synchrony of movement over the length of a session predict better rating, better outcome of that very same session.
00:28:10:16 - 00:28:48:11
Unknown
And if you repeat the analysis over time, that same relationship remains even that fascinating. So the future, I believe, is for companies like yours. because in order to apply all of these platforms, we need to have the recording. Was that research in Germany? Is it a sequential lag analysis? We have a lot of similar models. We use multilinear, regression analysis, which is a new system will not a new that from 2015.
00:28:48:13 - 00:29:15:07
Unknown
But it has the flexible because because they may your thing about what we do is that is very subjective. And so when people say when you are saying that you are effective, let me tell you the reason why we believe you are not. Or let me tell you why we cannot believe you, because the system of analysis is flawed in a number of ways.
00:29:15:08 - 00:29:28:15
Unknown
We have a historical event in in psychology where a British guy came to the United States, Hans Eysenck in,
00:29:28:17 - 00:30:00:08
Unknown
These an analysis of psychotherapy effectiveness and reached the conclusion that this new discipline, you know, and that was offering major success and major treatment for pretty much everything that was affecting anybody, actually, guess what did not work? Not only that, he was as brave as to say, I'm for some therapies. I'm not going to say because I don't want to get in trouble.
00:30:00:10 - 00:30:08:20
Unknown
For some therapies, actually, the client got worst, you know, the, the, the, the.
00:30:09:00 - 00:30:45:05
Unknown
Reaction to all that he he went back to England and only came back to the United States to an event on his, behalf like, please forgive us for everything we said about you. And, but he was a statistician and was able to demonstrate that what was demonstrating as effective was based on a flawed analysis. And so since then, we have been the most harsh critics of what we do.
00:30:45:06 - 00:31:19:06
Unknown
And I'm going to tell you every time, anybody we came up with a successful therapy. Somebody will show up and take them down for one reason or another, until this new systems of analysis came on and all of a sudden a new perspective came up. And I have to say this research today shows that we are effective to the tune of 60 to 80%.
00:31:19:08 - 00:31:45:13
Unknown
Across disorders and across therapies, the majority of the therapies happens to have some degree of effectiveness. I went to see a physician because, you know, I moved to Pennsylvania. I didn't shovel the snow the first day. So by the second they went out to shovel, it was icy on the bottom. I just cracked the ice and show it out.
00:31:45:14 - 00:32:10:21
Unknown
I couldn't move my arm, for about a week. And I in the middle. In the middle of that, I was going to a conference in Colombia. So I went to my primary doctor and I said, I'm going to be in a in a eight hour flight. I need your help. And the guy said, well, I'm going to put this particular injection because I can see those big knots.
00:32:11:01 - 00:33:04:07
Unknown
Yeah. I said, oh, great. Well he did, and then I said, so how effective are these? Oh no, they are very effective to the tune of 30% success. And I said to my myself, if I say that I have a therapy that is 30% effective, the psychiatrist and medical doctor will kick me out of the room. So that's another reason why I got to engage in the idea of outcome assessment, because I realized that we, the mental health providers, are held to a much higher standard than the medical and psychiatry professionals, interestingly enough, when in fact we are as or more effective for most of the known mental disorders.
00:33:04:09 - 00:33:50:11
Unknown
So you can see my analysis of that effectiveness with video support is fantastic. To kind a pivot for a minute, you know, many of our listeners, they struggle with, stakeholder buy in to acquire some of these video systems. What advice can you give our listeners to to help advocate for video technology investments within their own organizations? As I mentioned, the the the idea of not only because, of course, improving training and improving, quote unquote, analysis of what the students do and ways to improve and all of that is very relevant, but it's very relevant, for us professionally.
00:33:50:13 - 00:34:24:17
Unknown
So for a university to invest in providing these platforms, you know, you, my mind, you should focus on the outcome benefit. Why having these type of possibilities and conducting this type of analysis will give you an opportunity to explain to the stakeholders, the budget managers, the university presidents and provost. Yeah, an understanding of the intrinsic benefit of this.
00:34:24:19 - 00:35:00:15
Unknown
Furthermore, what I what I've said to many of my colleagues, I'm a firm advocate of training clinics, but I think we need to transform training clinics into a research apply training clinics. In other words, how do we work not only to provide the services, but to determine best and most effective services and we do that by demonstrating outcome.
00:35:00:17 - 00:35:35:19
Unknown
So if you can provide that type of data, you have, I believe, a higher likelihood of being supported financially because again, you know, and also to apply for grant, I'm not sure that many training clinics will get grants, but but an applied research and service and, training and service will actually have a larger likelihood of being supported by large grants.
00:35:35:20 - 00:36:06:20
Unknown
So my suggestion is demonstrate use information that that provides that, provide examples. And the value is not only educational but also financial and quote unquote PR because it allows you. Yeah, please allow you to say we have a clinic to serve students in an effective way. You know, you can see that, of course, without, even flinched.
00:36:07:00 - 00:36:50:02
Unknown
But you have to have data to really support that if somebody asked me, is the Herr Clinic effective? I can give you a thirty minute run down that will, actually have you walking out thinking, oh my God, these guys are pretty darn effective. And I'm going to give you a little tip. So the Herr Clinic is service only. By students in training every other clinic, for example, the big clinics and universities are clinics managed by certified licensed professionals.
00:36:50:04 - 00:37:23:06
Unknown
And they have some students in training and they call themselves training Clinic sometimes. Well, what do you know? We're a true training clinic. And so when you look at the outcome average, the overall score of all those clinics and then you compare that one to ours, we are right there with them. Well, Carlos before we wrap up our conversation today, is there anything else that you'd like to share with our listeners?
00:37:23:09 - 00:38:07:07
Unknown
Anything from your very successful career and experience that, our listeners could really take away and learn from? From my point of view, the more opportunities we have to review all the work we do, the higher the likelihood of success, improvement of techniques, advanced of the profession, publication of outcomes. So we can even, show what works and for how long.
00:38:07:09 - 00:38:53:10
Unknown
To give you a different example, I manage a biofeedback neurofeedback clinic at a counseling center in Texas. And the question was, okay. Is, is biofeedback can offer any help with a study comparing a thousand a student using only biofeedback and neurofeedback versus a thousand students that were similar in terms of race, ethnicity, the level of, a course credits, and GPA, etc. and the ones who did the neurofeedback biofeedback graduated in larger numbers.
00:38:53:12 - 00:39:25:19
Unknown
So retention was accomplished and graduation but also with half a GPA point higher than the matching sample. So now you understand that you have a good system in hand that is providing a good service for the students. And you can showcase that. But here is the thing. We went back and analyzed this sample of clients, meaning those who participated.
00:39:25:21 - 00:40:06:00
Unknown
And guess what? The ones who participated up to three sessions gained nothing. The ones who participated from 11 to 25 sessions. It was a small number, but still a number, did not make any further improvement. So that shows you the parameters necessary to get the better profit and outcome from this type of intervention. Yeah, so we give you a chance to decide when to stop.
00:40:06:01 - 00:40:43:00
Unknown
And save a lot of resources. So yes, the the use of this type of system making the analogy work on our prospective, using the recordings to analyze what works for how long, etc. it give you not only a chance to improve the quality of service, but also to save resources. Okay, find places that need more improvement and continue doing whatever works well, I have one last question before, we finally wrap.
00:40:43:00 - 00:41:04:15
Unknown
I just wanted to note I was, looking into your biography a little bit and, the quote, a motto you have cited is you must lift as you climb. And if it's a very positive note to end on, would you explain to us what that means to you and how that is represented in the field of, counseling?
00:41:04:17 - 00:41:38:04
Unknown
Actually, that motto, nobody knows from where it came from, but it was a motto that, was heavily used in at USF, the University of South Florida, but by the Latin or Latinx community. And of course, I began to use it, because this is what happens to me. Most of us work to achieve personal success. That's true.
00:41:38:05 - 00:42:15:12
Unknown
So what happens when you are gone? What's your legacy? So the idea of of your success to be your success is a very, very pitiful idea. The idea is that as you progress, you need to help others to achieve similar progress, and you need to collaborate and work with quote unquote, different groups, individual groups, and learning societies. And of course, even at a legislative.
00:42:15:14 - 00:42:34:09
Unknown
So you must lift as you climb, as you need to bring with that, with you those who are coming after you. As my student, a lot of them are now faculty at different programs and all that. And with some of them we still work together after, I don't know how many years.
00:42:34:11 - 00:43:05:21
Unknown
And I want to I want to give you a a very sad, picture. Remember that we have this wonderful captain who ended up landing his airplane in the Hudson River. Sully. Yeah, yeah. There is a picture of that airplane floating on the river with all the passengers standing on the wing. And that's exactly my position. I carry a lot of people on my wing.
00:43:06:00 - 00:43:44:05
Unknown
Why I think that they are capable, outstanding, able to contribute and construct them, build. Why trying to keep your staff for yourself. So that the reason why I teach, research and publish so I can help others to progress. Also, that's very meaningful. Well, Carlos, this has been a phenomenal conversation. I think our listeners just got a ton of expertise that they can take away and really improve their own counseling programs.
00:43:44:07 - 00:44:02:07
Unknown
If our listeners wanted to get in touch with you, how can they do that? Oh, the easiest way and by today's standards, easy, easy. My name Carlos Zalaquett. Followed by 8279.
00:44:02:09 - 00:44:36:11
Unknown
At gmail.com. Well thanks so much for your time today. Again, it's it's been very meaningful. We appreciate it. And thank you very much. Thank you so much. And I really, really love what you do. Thank you for all your contributions. I know that this is a proposition or business proposition, but at the same time, you have a business that actually create many, many opportunities to accomplish several of the goals that I just, discuss with you guys.
00:44:36:11 - 00:44:45:17
Unknown
So for that, again. And if you are on the north, stay warm.
00:44:45:19 - 00:44:57:16
Unknown
On Record is a podcast presented by Intelligent Video Solutions, hosted by Mike Anzalone and Andy Simmons and produced by Kyle Shelstad. Find us online at ipivs.com/onrecord and on social media at Intelligent Video Solutions.
Unknown
Welcome to the On Record podcast. This is a podcast where we talk with professionals and subject matter experts from diverse markets and disciplines that are using video and audio and innovative ways to support their organization's objectives. My name is Mike Anzalone and my co-host is Carmen Hawk. Today our guest is Carlos Zalaquett. Carlos is the former professor of educational psychology, counseling and special education at Penn State University.
00:00:33:18 - 00:01:08:09
Unknown
Carlos is also internationally recognized as a recognized expert on therapeutic outcomes assessments, mental health counseling, psychology, biofeedback, and neurofeedback. Welcome to the podcast, Carlos. Thank you. So good to be with you today. Yeah, we're really excited to have you on the podcast. And before we kind of hop into the conversation, can you tell us a little bit about yourself and your journey throughout your career and the highlights of what you've been able to accomplish so far?
00:01:08:10 - 00:01:51:07
Unknown
I have a long story. In in counseling and psychotherapy, really, because I initially began, as a student of philosophy, and I always saw psychology and counseling as the runaway daughters of the larger discipline philosophy until I took some courses. And I got fascinated. You know, I have a set of instructors and faculty who talk about the mind, the soul, the behavior.
00:01:51:09 - 00:02:22:05
Unknown
So I ended up not only learning as much as I could, volunteering to be a TA for their courses, but also training animals in a zoo, you know, training animals in laboratory using applications in every day, activities. It became my passion. So all of a sudden I got a degree, in psychology in Chile. Then I came here to get a masters in clinical psychology.
00:02:22:10 - 00:03:05:11
Unknown
Then a doctorate on behavioral neuroscience. And in every step of the way, there were new platforms that open in front of me. And, of course, my practice was very successful. And I have to say, maybe I should have stayed with that. And now I would be much richer than I am. But I decided to go and teach because I thought this type of, well of information possibilities, tentative contributions of reconstructing of a new world couldn't be kept for the few.
00:03:05:13 - 00:03:54:04
Unknown
So the idea was not only to go back and teach supervise, but also to manage and lead organizations. In fact, I'm still there. President of the Pennsylvania Mental Health Counselors Association. Past President of the Sociedad Interamericana de Psicología, and the President elect for Division 52, which is the society for Global Psychology of the American Psychological Association. So, in all these platforms, my idea was to find ways to train better and to solve meaning, provide services and interventions with good outcomes.
00:03:54:06 - 00:04:44:15
Unknown
And that's what I've been doing for the last. You don't want to know how many years because there are way too many. One of the things that I had early on, and this will connect with us, was to record with a tape recorder. My sessions and later on with a handheld camera. When we have those those cameras coming up, I will record client and then we will review those videos together to understand in more depth, to dig in about what was happening, what were the possibilities, what were the strengths and how to integrate them to make a new response for a better outcome.
00:04:44:17 - 00:05:17:00
Unknown
So, as you can imagine, speaking with you all. Is a blessing because you work on a platform that have helped me accomplish those goals. That part of my history and why you see that I'm having this conversation with you. Carlos, can can you share some examples of how you've been able to use video in terms of of training your students or researchers?
00:05:17:01 - 00:06:01:06
Unknown
That's incredible. The the, program, I was, in until in June happened to have a clinic, you know, the the Herr Clinic and the clinic has every room equipped with video recording systems. And they are all saved into a hub where students, faculty and supervisors can go and visit or revisit the specific sessions. So then became central for supervision.
00:06:01:07 - 00:06:27:00
Unknown
Of course, we use it also for training because once you find a way to demonstrate a particular skill, if that is saved, it can be used in your lectures, especially in courses like practicum supervision externships, where the students can come back and provide an analysis of what they did. So it's not just a self reflection based on memory.
00:06:27:00 - 00:07:01:05
Unknown
They can revisit the session and actually make an even better, quote unquote, self reflection, a more accurate, you know, analysis of what they need. And then we come in supervisors to watch the session and then watch the session with the student highlighting the strengths and competencies. And also bringing to the forefront areas for further improvement. So I use those videos in class and with my student.
00:07:01:05 - 00:07:35:19
Unknown
But always remember we all ethical and consent from the client. The clients know that this is a training clinic. And so that give us the faculty and the student the possibility of really revise. Now the second major application was to review the sessions, to analyze what changes, what happened from session one to the final session.
00:07:35:21 - 00:08:06:07
Unknown
How does the client looks like and have a chance to assess outcome, which is one of my current, main project. And in fact, we were able to accomplish that in situations that were quite interesting. For example, one of my colleagues said to me, we have a counselor with an accent, ha ha ha. I'm sorry, you are telling me, which is I’m a faculty with an accent.
00:08:06:09 - 00:08:31:04
Unknown
and I don't think that the student is doing well, blah, blah blah. I think that the student need to be removed. Wait a minute it’s an international student? Isn't that a little bit drastic? So I said, you know, why don't you build the case? I will look into the situation and I will get back to you or with you and then we can discuss options.
00:08:31:06 - 00:08:57:21
Unknown
So what I did is I went through the VALT. I went through the recordings, and I realized that this student happens to have a large number of client. They all keep coming. The sessions seem to be constructive, and when they look at the self report of the client, they were responding in a way that demonstrated that they were improving.
00:08:58:00 - 00:09:28:04
Unknown
So I sat down with my colleague and I said, you know, I really, value your concern, but I have to say this, I don't have a way to support any actions because here is the data. Well, you wouldn't be able to do that if you're don’t have all these recordings. So that's another way. So supervision, training of skills.
00:09:28:06 - 00:09:59:11
Unknown
Supporting case work and also supporting research. So I, I have taken big advantage of your system what can I say. can I just say, Carlos, that you are very passionate. It comes right through the screen. I can feel how much that teaching and also continuing your own education, how much it means to you. I'm curious, you mentioned the early adoption you had with a handheld video recorder.
00:09:59:13 - 00:10:23:14
Unknown
And reviewing those tapes versus now having a different system. I'm using the VALT system, for example. Can you tell us the difference and the feedback you receive from clients or those your supervising then versus now? Is that much more commonplace? I'm just curious to hear how that evolution looked. Great question. Because this is this is not a big evolution in a number of ways.
00:10:23:14 - 00:10:56:04
Unknown
But I have to tell you, those who are being recording machines that you that you need to hold on your shoulder. Today we have a camera on a corner of the room. Second, you know those tape not always worked. So even though you did the recording, that didn't mean that you will be able to see them again. And to watch them, you need to have these huge machines with those big VHS tapes.
00:10:56:06 - 00:11:28:03
Unknown
And so it was pretty innovative, but pretty overwhelming. Plus you mess up in terms of capturing a lot of the things that you were recording now were during this session. But your attention that should always be on the client was split between the camera and whatever the client was saying. So without having all that equipment.
00:11:28:05 - 00:11:50:08
Unknown
That was manuals. You can have this automated system, you can go have decision in the best possible way without distracting yourself with all the mechanics of these. And at the end of the session, you can actually say, would you like to review a moment that I and just click on the laptop to show the person the, the connection and all of that?
00:11:50:10 - 00:12:20:01
Unknown
Now how is that for magic? Some kids will never know the magic of VHS to digital. It's okay. Some someone, some people will never know. You guys are too young. But I can tell you my wife. I have changed countries and states more times than you will ever know. And at the end of the day she will say, wait, are you still carrying those boxes with those big tapes?
00:12:20:02 - 00:12:48:17
Unknown
Vintage? Yeah. When do you have time to watch them? And I’m going, These are my treasure. At some point that will sit down. So if they became a heavy burden, your system allow these to be stored and be accessed in an ethical and appropriate way. You know, from any point in the world, if you have the secure platform to do that, what can be more exciting than that?
00:12:48:19 - 00:13:14:04
Unknown
So all of a sudden, you can revisit the sessions with the client in place. One of my clients said to me once, I will tell you that blah, blah, blah. And I said, look, I don't I don't have any recollection. Let's go back to the session and check, to see cuz I'm really concerned that I, I truly let you down and I want to learn.
00:13:14:04 - 00:13:21:03
Unknown
Where did I miss this when we couldn't find it in the session?
00:13:21:05 - 00:13:45:05
Unknown
So the client deeply apologized and oh, I was sure I was convinced that I mentioned this to you. And I said, I, I know it was important to you. It would have been great because I would have done something about that. To fulfill your request, the opposite happens also that a client will come and say, you know, last session was outstanding.
00:13:45:07 - 00:14:17:03
Unknown
I walk out of that session and I went straight to my partner, you know, and we sat down and ironed out all I wouldn't be able to do isn't unless you you you say what you said. Im going, what in the world did I say. you better go watch that again. Yeah. What was the critical the triggering point. So I can go back to this session and review to see where the magic happens.
00:14:17:04 - 00:14:50:14
Unknown
So that has made my my own training, you know, much, much better. So I can go back and revisit things that work and understand why they do and things that didn't work, make amends and go back at it again to regain training on those dimensions. So obviously, so is a very constructive situation. I'm sorry for the number of example, but I can give you a bunch of them.
00:14:50:16 - 00:15:13:04
Unknown
I feel like my job is threatened right now. You're very good at this, Carlos. You're extraordinary. Yeah. I was going to ask you, Carlos, in your description of the work that you've done with video, you've kind of implied that you use video for both qualitative and quantitative kind of research. Do you feel that video can support either one of those methodologies?
00:15:13:04 - 00:15:48:00
Unknown
Do you have a preference of how you use video to support data collection and research? Oh, what a great question. And I'm going to I'm going to try to restrain myself because from a qualitative point of view, you know, you can analyze every session to understand what were the quote unquote themes and how those themes evolve over time or over sessions in or within the session.
00:15:48:02 - 00:16:34:11
Unknown
And then you can also focus on a particular person and analyze that from a qualitative point of view to understand how change happens. Or in my case, since I am a developmental counseling therapist, and also a micro skill a therapist, in addition to any other denomination, because I don't believe in a single therapy model. And so, I can analyze how the micro skills, you know, work out on a successful session versus a non successful session and understand why, which ones, etc., in a qualitative way.
00:16:34:13 - 00:17:00:18
Unknown
But I can also multiply that by a number of clients, a number of sessions etc. and do quantitative work. In fact, we use a system connected to yours which is the self-report of the client. And we have look at the self-report of the client to find out. Is there a real change from beginning to end, and what do you know?
00:17:00:19 - 00:17:29:16
Unknown
My research with my team not only shows that there is change, but it shows that the change is clinically significant. Because if you are a smoker and you go to my, smoke cessation treatment and you come back at the end and you say, you know, I used to smoke 30 cigarettes a day, now I'm down to three.
00:17:29:17 - 00:17:58:19
Unknown
That will be statistically significant, but you are still at risk of the negative effect of nicotine because you're still smoking. And so change statistically significant change is not always clinically significant. That's an interesting point. And then you can certainly, analyze that. So my students are doing great. Not only I should say, our students are doing great.
00:17:58:19 - 00:18:36:15
Unknown
Not only they promote change. And in a significant, clinically significant way, but also with the comparison between international and national students. And guess what? Both groups have the same rate of success. But here is what we found that can change a little bit. The landscape of what we do. Yes, they were all successful, but some were more successful in improving clients anxiety collaboratively than depression.
00:18:36:16 - 00:19:18:15
Unknown
And vice versa. So we figure these give us an opportunity by the end to say to the student, you are doing very well with this type of disorders. Maybe you need to sharpen your skills for this other type. or you can specialize in what you are or really doing quite well. But also qualitative gave us a chance to look at the tapes and understand that we can use these sessions, analyze them, and by mid-semester say to a trainees, our students in training, you know, you are doing quite well, but here are areas of improvement.
00:19:18:17 - 00:19:56:17
Unknown
We still have the other half of the semester to make improvement. So it's not to just chastise or criticize, but to find ways to get more rounded and competent student to qualitative and quantitative pan out quite well in this process, you mentioned that you kind of started with that 100 pound shoulder webcam. And now when you're not looking at it, there's a real cam.
00:19:56:19 - 00:20:41:15
Unknown
That's right. The vintage real cam vintage cam to you. And you know, having these high def cameras mounted in the rooms during that evolution as technology is improved, what challenges have you come across yourself? Your supervisors, your students in terms of adapting to the new technology that is available? That's a great question. And is the number one reason of concern, on my major complain not all of our students, faculty supervisor and professionals are on board.
00:20:41:17 - 00:21:34:00
Unknown
In fact, there are many different reasons for that. On the one hand, you have what we call stage fright. You know, when you are afraid of seeing yourself in a recording. Number two, the issues of quote unquote, using these type of recordings to instead of, apply them in a constructive educational way, to use them to attack or, criticize, you know, performance or as a way to document, you know, negative issues or which is another major thing, you know, the issue of freedom.
00:21:34:04 - 00:22:03:19
Unknown
I don't like to be taped. I don't want to be in a training place where taping takes place. Well, I think that that's terrible because you are missing a tremendous opportunity. None of these systems are intended to be, punishing, and quite the contrary, they are supposed to be used in a constructive way. And so, yeah, not everybody is on board.
00:22:03:19 - 00:22:43:01
Unknown
And I have to say I'll be happy to sit down with anybody who disagrees and share with them the amount of information we have that demonstrates how relevant using of these systems is. You mentioned ethical capture and, and the essence of, doing things, with protections in place and standards in place so that you can build a comfort with people who might be resistant to the adoption of video or having a recorder or recording of themselves.
00:22:43:03 - 00:23:19:08
Unknown
Would you describe a little bit more about, I know the environment in the framework of the recording system you're using provides that. Is there anything else you put into place? And the other, areas that you lean into when you're maybe making a persuasive argument for video capture that? Well, let me, for the sake of time, let me remind all of us that tele health happens to have a number of constraints, you know, from quote unquote, confirming who's the person, participating and making sure that is the client.
00:23:19:08 - 00:23:55:04
Unknown
Second, in an environment we know disruptions and with no, witnesses or intruders third with clear transcription and encoding that allows for the protected transfer of that information. So only people with the specific, software could see those tapes. And third, with clear agreement from the client. So when I say use video recording, I'm not saying use it in a, in a dictatorial way.
00:23:55:06 - 00:24:22:13
Unknown
Of course, there are clients that may have, a higher level of suspicious ness, or they may have, some sort of concerns about being. Observed. Well, sure, it's called paranoia. And so, in those cases, you will have to have a conversation with that person and over time, hopefully bring him to understand of the benefits and agree to use them.
00:24:22:17 - 00:24:48:21
Unknown
So if you use it with clinical consideration for the best benefit of the client, making sure that these are secure platforms and making sure that the client agrees and you comply with any other, for example, HIPPA regulations, you know, the systems are pretty safe and I believe yours are. I've never saw a break in the system. We have used this system for a long time.
00:24:49:00 - 00:25:19:03
Unknown
Carlos, what do you think is the future of using video, particularly in your field of clinical psychology? Yeah, I actually have to remind you, I. I'm blessed enough to be on the platform of clinical psychology, counseling psychology, and also mental health and counseling, mental health and clinical counseling. The reason I say that is because different than others who keep turf, I really try to integrate all these fields.
00:25:19:05 - 00:25:52:02
Unknown
The demand of mental health is so large that there isn't enough of us to cover. So this idea of only we can do this, you don't. You can only create an opportunity for many people missing access to mental health services. Now, what the future of video recording. I think that it will become larger and larger. Let me, explain this to you.
00:25:52:04 - 00:26:16:02
Unknown
So one day I needed to use a recording, you know, not not from your platform, a recording that, a, colleague of mine send me of a mock interview with one of their colleagues, and they wanted to know if it was good enough as a demonstration of the micro skills. And, of course, they sent it to me.
00:26:16:03 - 00:26:52:01
Unknown
So I'm supposed to be one of the expert on micro skills and what are, you know, I opened the video and I just couldn't get. The sound because it was too low. And so I put transcript and the silly system did transcribe in a creative way. And so I contacted one of my techs and they said, hey, listen, get word to do a transcript of this conversation.
00:26:52:03 - 00:27:25:21
Unknown
And I'm going, what the word has to do with this? Well, what do you know? He did a better job once I learned how to use it. The transcript was great. Now think about this. Now we have all these AI systems. So as you think about these, if I’m having. A lot of time invested on analyzing, producing papers demonstrating what the students can accomplish and all that.
00:27:26:00 - 00:28:10:14
Unknown
Guess what that will be sped up to an exponential of n because all of the system can do those type of analysis, transcription and analysis in fractions of a second. I have a colleague in Germany that developed a software now that you can use to study interaction between the nonverbal interaction between the counselor and the client, and they are able to demonstrate that synchrony of movement over the length of a session predict better rating, better outcome of that very same session.
00:28:10:16 - 00:28:48:11
Unknown
And if you repeat the analysis over time, that same relationship remains even that fascinating. So the future, I believe, is for companies like yours. because in order to apply all of these platforms, we need to have the recording. Was that research in Germany? Is it a sequential lag analysis? We have a lot of similar models. We use multilinear, regression analysis, which is a new system will not a new that from 2015.
00:28:48:13 - 00:29:15:07
Unknown
But it has the flexible because because they may your thing about what we do is that is very subjective. And so when people say when you are saying that you are effective, let me tell you the reason why we believe you are not. Or let me tell you why we cannot believe you, because the system of analysis is flawed in a number of ways.
00:29:15:08 - 00:29:28:15
Unknown
We have a historical event in in psychology where a British guy came to the United States, Hans Eysenck in,
00:29:28:17 - 00:30:00:08
Unknown
These an analysis of psychotherapy effectiveness and reached the conclusion that this new discipline, you know, and that was offering major success and major treatment for pretty much everything that was affecting anybody, actually, guess what did not work? Not only that, he was as brave as to say, I'm for some therapies. I'm not going to say because I don't want to get in trouble.
00:30:00:10 - 00:30:08:20
Unknown
For some therapies, actually, the client got worst, you know, the, the, the, the.
00:30:09:00 - 00:30:45:05
Unknown
Reaction to all that he he went back to England and only came back to the United States to an event on his, behalf like, please forgive us for everything we said about you. And, but he was a statistician and was able to demonstrate that what was demonstrating as effective was based on a flawed analysis. And so since then, we have been the most harsh critics of what we do.
00:30:45:06 - 00:31:19:06
Unknown
And I'm going to tell you every time, anybody we came up with a successful therapy. Somebody will show up and take them down for one reason or another, until this new systems of analysis came on and all of a sudden a new perspective came up. And I have to say this research today shows that we are effective to the tune of 60 to 80%.
00:31:19:08 - 00:31:45:13
Unknown
Across disorders and across therapies, the majority of the therapies happens to have some degree of effectiveness. I went to see a physician because, you know, I moved to Pennsylvania. I didn't shovel the snow the first day. So by the second they went out to shovel, it was icy on the bottom. I just cracked the ice and show it out.
00:31:45:14 - 00:32:10:21
Unknown
I couldn't move my arm, for about a week. And I in the middle. In the middle of that, I was going to a conference in Colombia. So I went to my primary doctor and I said, I'm going to be in a in a eight hour flight. I need your help. And the guy said, well, I'm going to put this particular injection because I can see those big knots.
00:32:11:01 - 00:33:04:07
Unknown
Yeah. I said, oh, great. Well he did, and then I said, so how effective are these? Oh no, they are very effective to the tune of 30% success. And I said to my myself, if I say that I have a therapy that is 30% effective, the psychiatrist and medical doctor will kick me out of the room. So that's another reason why I got to engage in the idea of outcome assessment, because I realized that we, the mental health providers, are held to a much higher standard than the medical and psychiatry professionals, interestingly enough, when in fact we are as or more effective for most of the known mental disorders.
00:33:04:09 - 00:33:50:11
Unknown
So you can see my analysis of that effectiveness with video support is fantastic. To kind a pivot for a minute, you know, many of our listeners, they struggle with, stakeholder buy in to acquire some of these video systems. What advice can you give our listeners to to help advocate for video technology investments within their own organizations? As I mentioned, the the the idea of not only because, of course, improving training and improving, quote unquote, analysis of what the students do and ways to improve and all of that is very relevant, but it's very relevant, for us professionally.
00:33:50:13 - 00:34:24:17
Unknown
So for a university to invest in providing these platforms, you know, you, my mind, you should focus on the outcome benefit. Why having these type of possibilities and conducting this type of analysis will give you an opportunity to explain to the stakeholders, the budget managers, the university presidents and provost. Yeah, an understanding of the intrinsic benefit of this.
00:34:24:19 - 00:35:00:15
Unknown
Furthermore, what I what I've said to many of my colleagues, I'm a firm advocate of training clinics, but I think we need to transform training clinics into a research apply training clinics. In other words, how do we work not only to provide the services, but to determine best and most effective services and we do that by demonstrating outcome.
00:35:00:17 - 00:35:35:19
Unknown
So if you can provide that type of data, you have, I believe, a higher likelihood of being supported financially because again, you know, and also to apply for grant, I'm not sure that many training clinics will get grants, but but an applied research and service and, training and service will actually have a larger likelihood of being supported by large grants.
00:35:35:20 - 00:36:06:20
Unknown
So my suggestion is demonstrate use information that that provides that, provide examples. And the value is not only educational but also financial and quote unquote PR because it allows you. Yeah, please allow you to say we have a clinic to serve students in an effective way. You know, you can see that, of course, without, even flinched.
00:36:07:00 - 00:36:50:02
Unknown
But you have to have data to really support that if somebody asked me, is the Herr Clinic effective? I can give you a thirty minute run down that will, actually have you walking out thinking, oh my God, these guys are pretty darn effective. And I'm going to give you a little tip. So the Herr Clinic is service only. By students in training every other clinic, for example, the big clinics and universities are clinics managed by certified licensed professionals.
00:36:50:04 - 00:37:23:06
Unknown
And they have some students in training and they call themselves training Clinic sometimes. Well, what do you know? We're a true training clinic. And so when you look at the outcome average, the overall score of all those clinics and then you compare that one to ours, we are right there with them. Well, Carlos before we wrap up our conversation today, is there anything else that you'd like to share with our listeners?
00:37:23:09 - 00:38:07:07
Unknown
Anything from your very successful career and experience that, our listeners could really take away and learn from? From my point of view, the more opportunities we have to review all the work we do, the higher the likelihood of success, improvement of techniques, advanced of the profession, publication of outcomes. So we can even, show what works and for how long.
00:38:07:09 - 00:38:53:10
Unknown
To give you a different example, I manage a biofeedback neurofeedback clinic at a counseling center in Texas. And the question was, okay. Is, is biofeedback can offer any help with a study comparing a thousand a student using only biofeedback and neurofeedback versus a thousand students that were similar in terms of race, ethnicity, the level of, a course credits, and GPA, etc. and the ones who did the neurofeedback biofeedback graduated in larger numbers.
00:38:53:12 - 00:39:25:19
Unknown
So retention was accomplished and graduation but also with half a GPA point higher than the matching sample. So now you understand that you have a good system in hand that is providing a good service for the students. And you can showcase that. But here is the thing. We went back and analyzed this sample of clients, meaning those who participated.
00:39:25:21 - 00:40:06:00
Unknown
And guess what? The ones who participated up to three sessions gained nothing. The ones who participated from 11 to 25 sessions. It was a small number, but still a number, did not make any further improvement. So that shows you the parameters necessary to get the better profit and outcome from this type of intervention. Yeah, so we give you a chance to decide when to stop.
00:40:06:01 - 00:40:43:00
Unknown
And save a lot of resources. So yes, the the use of this type of system making the analogy work on our prospective, using the recordings to analyze what works for how long, etc. it give you not only a chance to improve the quality of service, but also to save resources. Okay, find places that need more improvement and continue doing whatever works well, I have one last question before, we finally wrap.
00:40:43:00 - 00:41:04:15
Unknown
I just wanted to note I was, looking into your biography a little bit and, the quote, a motto you have cited is you must lift as you climb. And if it's a very positive note to end on, would you explain to us what that means to you and how that is represented in the field of, counseling?
00:41:04:17 - 00:41:38:04
Unknown
Actually, that motto, nobody knows from where it came from, but it was a motto that, was heavily used in at USF, the University of South Florida, but by the Latin or Latinx community. And of course, I began to use it, because this is what happens to me. Most of us work to achieve personal success. That's true.
00:41:38:05 - 00:42:15:12
Unknown
So what happens when you are gone? What's your legacy? So the idea of of your success to be your success is a very, very pitiful idea. The idea is that as you progress, you need to help others to achieve similar progress, and you need to collaborate and work with quote unquote, different groups, individual groups, and learning societies. And of course, even at a legislative.
00:42:15:14 - 00:42:34:09
Unknown
So you must lift as you climb, as you need to bring with that, with you those who are coming after you. As my student, a lot of them are now faculty at different programs and all that. And with some of them we still work together after, I don't know how many years.
00:42:34:11 - 00:43:05:21
Unknown
And I want to I want to give you a a very sad, picture. Remember that we have this wonderful captain who ended up landing his airplane in the Hudson River. Sully. Yeah, yeah. There is a picture of that airplane floating on the river with all the passengers standing on the wing. And that's exactly my position. I carry a lot of people on my wing.
00:43:06:00 - 00:43:44:05
Unknown
Why I think that they are capable, outstanding, able to contribute and construct them, build. Why trying to keep your staff for yourself. So that the reason why I teach, research and publish so I can help others to progress. Also, that's very meaningful. Well, Carlos, this has been a phenomenal conversation. I think our listeners just got a ton of expertise that they can take away and really improve their own counseling programs.
00:43:44:07 - 00:44:02:07
Unknown
If our listeners wanted to get in touch with you, how can they do that? Oh, the easiest way and by today's standards, easy, easy. My name Carlos Zalaquett. Followed by 8279.
00:44:02:09 - 00:44:36:11
Unknown
At gmail.com. Well thanks so much for your time today. Again, it's it's been very meaningful. We appreciate it. And thank you very much. Thank you so much. And I really, really love what you do. Thank you for all your contributions. I know that this is a proposition or business proposition, but at the same time, you have a business that actually create many, many opportunities to accomplish several of the goals that I just, discuss with you guys.
00:44:36:11 - 00:44:45:17
Unknown
So for that, again. And if you are on the north, stay warm.
00:44:45:19 - 00:44:57:16
Unknown
On Record is a podcast presented by Intelligent Video Solutions, hosted by Mike Anzalone and Andy Simmons and produced by Kyle Shelstad. Find us online at ipivs.com/onrecord and on social media at Intelligent Video Solutions.