00:00:01:18 - 00:00:22:19 Unknown Welcome to the On Record Podcast podcast, where we talk with professionals and subject matter experts from diverse markets, that are using video and audio and innovative ways to support their organization's objectives. My name is Andy Simmons, and today our guest is Caitlin McVey. Caitlin is the associate VP at Memorial Hermann Institute for Nursing Excellence. Caitlin thank you so much for joining us. 00:00:22:21 - 00:00:44:09 Unknown Thank you for having me. Yeah. You know, I have a lot of questions for you regarding your use of video. Memorial Hermann. But first, I want to just give us, you know, the 2 to 5 minute kind of. Who is Caitlin McVey Introduce yourself. Give us a little bit of your background. Kind of how we got to where we are today is is, is associate vice president. 00:00:44:11 - 00:01:29:05 Unknown Sure. So I am a nurse. I started my career as a neonatal intensive care nurse, caring for very sick, premature babies. From there, I've worked in a variety of roles, from infection prevention and quality service line clinical projects, magnet program, and then currently in my role now as the AVP for Memorial Hermann's Institute for Nursing Excellence and the Institute for Nursing Excellence was really established two and a half years ago, and it's really intended to strengthen the nursing workforce, elevate professional practice, accelerate innovation to the bedside, and excel in clinical and operational outcomes. 00:01:29:07 - 00:02:19:04 Unknown And that also includes nursing research. And so really a common thread across those four areas is community, because everything we do connects into the community, whether it's our community of nurses in clinical care providers or the greater Houston community. And ultimately in all of my roles and my role today, too, I get to work with different teams and leaders across disciplines and nurses and frontline clinical care providers to really push strategic partnerships, innovative initiatives, and along the way, I've learned a lot about the importance of piloting and doing small tests of change to learn and iterate, but always needing to consider scale and sustainability from the very beginning. 00:02:19:06 - 00:02:48:17 Unknown And so a lot of times when we have new technology coming into Memorial Hermann that will impact nurses or frontline care providers. It comes through the nursing institute, and I get to have an opportunity to be involved with it, so we can make sure we're connecting it to the right team members, the right stakeholders, and looking at it from various perspectives to make sure that the technology and the workflow processes all come together to meet the needs of our patients and our clinical care providers. 00:02:48:18 - 00:03:05:19 Unknown So in that vein, when you're talking about like technology kind of funneling through you, how do you use and integrate things like data driven tools like, like video analytics, to enhance some of those goals that you're speaking of? How how does video kind of play a role in that? Yeah. So it's a really important role in that. 00:03:05:21 - 00:03:37:04 Unknown Over the last two years since we've set up the nursing institute, we've worked really closely with clinical education, our human resources teams and others to think through how we are upskilling and reskilling our staff. So we help them into their career, whether they have experience. Maybe they're a new graduate nurse, for example, or maybe they're coming into health care for the first time as a patient care technician with no health care background. 00:03:37:06 - 00:04:05:09 Unknown They come in through the nursing institute, and we're able to do a number of things. We're able to start them with virtual reality technology, and they can actually walk through those scenarios. And then we can watch them on video seeing what they see in the scenario. And so when we debrief with them afterwards, we can rewatch that video and point out what went well and where some opportunities may be. 00:04:05:10 - 00:04:32:19 Unknown It also helps us learn across larger groups. We also though have a very immersive simulation lab within the nursing Institute, and we have audio video technology in that. And so as our participants our employees, students are going through simulation activities. We are recording them. We have a lot of great interaction. And then again, we can take them into a debrief room afterwards. 00:04:32:21 - 00:04:56:03 Unknown Watch those videos back, give them corrections, you know, make suggestions, things of that nature, and then they can actually go back into their room and try it again. We use that same technology as we're building out new processes as well across Memorial Hermann. So a lot of times if we test new technologies, new workflows, we'll do it in our simulation lab. 00:04:56:03 - 00:05:25:18 Unknown We can record the process. And then again, looking at the video, thinking through how do we need to adjust that process. What are the timestamps across. So as we're looking at efficiencies and workflows, we can use the videos to help us with that. Time management. So I'm really interested in the debrief component of this because we've interviewed a decent amount of people on this podcast, but you're actually kind of one of the first ones who mentioned using this for for debriefing. 00:05:25:18 - 00:05:45:11 Unknown I'd love to hear just a little bit more like, what does this look like? You talked a little bit about what happens next. They get to go in and give it another try. Does this mean that, like the debrief is always for learning and not like of learning that like evaluative or just talk a little bit more about what that debrief looks like with your nurses. 00:05:45:13 - 00:06:16:02 Unknown Yeah. So debriefing is, I think, a really important part of simulation and simulation activities. And so before we ever start a simulation, we debrief our participants. So we let them know kind of what they're about to experience. If there's any things, maybe that we're going to have the patient decompensated during the scenario. So we really want to protect their psychological safety in the simulation process. 00:06:16:05 - 00:06:37:04 Unknown So we start on the front by pre briefing them. We also tell them that they are going to be recorded. And that will watch their video back afterwards. And so that can introduce a vulnerable scenario right. Especially if we are testing skills or if they're learning something for the first time. And that's the first time they're putting it into practice. 00:06:37:05 - 00:07:05:04 Unknown And so that's where as we go through the simulation and then we get to that debrief process afterwards. It's so critical that everything ties together. So in the debrief we have tables and chairs, kind of like a classroom set up and a big screen TV. And we're able to pull the video that we recorded during the activity up on that big screen TV, and we can watch it through in real time. 00:07:05:04 - 00:07:30:17 Unknown We can skip and jump to different parts of the scenario. And so our education team will be in the control room while the scenarios running, and they can actually put little bookmarks along the way. And it really flags for them where they need to target for that debrief process. So it's really intentional depending on the scenario and the learner and the activities, it could be one on one. 00:07:31:00 - 00:07:53:00 Unknown Or most often it's in a small group. And so we're all learning together. Then in that environment we watch the video. We can provide feedback on what they did really well and highlight those best practices. And that's just as much a learning opportunity for everybody in the room as it is when we identify things that they could do differently next time. 00:07:53:05 - 00:08:15:21 Unknown So just the positive side of it, I think, is also important because we can learn from what went well, just as much as we can learn from what maybe didn't go so well. And then we can focus on those so we can go to certain parts of the video, watch the technique, verbally talk through what we should be doing instead. 00:08:16:01 - 00:08:40:15 Unknown We also have whiteboards in the rooms, things of that nature. So depending on what it is that they're walking through in terms of the scenario, they can draw a picture on the whiteboard really showcasing the steps, showcasing the detail of maybe that anatomy, that body part, whatever it is. And really focus the learning in a couple of different ways throughout that debrief process. 00:08:40:16 - 00:09:04:21 Unknown And then sometimes we'll go back to the classroom, learn a little bit more, come back upstairs, or sometimes they'll go straight back into the room and try it again. So it just depends on the nature, the topic at hand and your learners. But that's why I think using video technology in this way is so effective, because we can really personalize it to the learner and to the scenario. 00:09:05:00 - 00:09:20:06 Unknown That's great. I especially like I, I really kind of I wrote that down pretty brief when you wrote that one. I I'd never heard that term before, but two, I can imagine, you know, before we started recording, we talked about people maybe coming back for a second career, maybe they started, you know, somewhere else. They're going into nursing. 00:09:20:06 - 00:09:42:00 Unknown They're probably not prepared to be recorded in their learning. So a pre brief, I know if it was myself and in your course, I would love to be briefed on exactly what I'm about to go through before I have to watch myself on it. When you were first implementing a video recording system, can you talk to me a little bit about, like, some of the challenges or lessons learned? 00:09:42:00 - 00:10:17:12 Unknown Like, did you always debrief brief? Did you, you know, how did let me rephrase. How did the implementation actually go? Because we know what it looks like from, the vendor perspective. I'd love to hear more on when a nursing department is actually kind of first implementing a video recording system. So I think one of the first things that we did, which helped us be successful was including a lot of key stakeholders from different teams and having different perspectives. 00:10:17:14 - 00:10:52:21 Unknown So we had our nursing team on there. We had some clinical educators as well who would actually be using the room, using the control room, using the technology, thinking through the different scenarios and examples that they would use it for. But then we had an entire team on the ISD side of it. So we had our digital architects, we had our informatics team members, we had our team that, knows our physical environment very well and who could help coordinate that planning process. 00:10:53:01 - 00:11:19:03 Unknown And so we spent a lot of time in that planning process because we wanted to be really intentional, not only to make sure that we were using the space to the best of our ability and to the highest capacity that we could. But we wanted to make sure that the technology, how we set everything up could scale because we have a large volume of individuals coming through our space. 00:11:19:04 - 00:11:44:13 Unknown And so we wanted to have flexibility in how we could use the number of rooms that we have in our physical environment. The unit is set up kind of like a V, and so it's a 30 bed hospital unit, but no patients. So it's only for education, innovation and learning, which is great. The environment though because it's set up as a V. 00:11:44:15 - 00:12:15:09 Unknown They're really long hallways and our server room is right in the middle of that V. And so when we think about the distance from the server room to the ICU rooms, where our high fidelity simulation suite is with the audio video technology, it's quite far. Then we have six rooms in our high fidelity space that we have the audio video technology in, and our high fidelity mannequins, plus a control room. 00:12:15:10 - 00:12:38:19 Unknown And so we spent a lot of time mapping out from the digital architect and ISD perspectives, the technical components of it, just as much as we were mapping out on the actual like education, innovation and learning side, those pieces. And then we had to make sure everything came together. Sure. Yeah. Got to make sure it works before you can actually use it. 00:12:38:21 - 00:13:00:04 Unknown You had mentioned that you don't actually have patients in there, so this question wouldn't necessarily refer so much to that. But when you when you're recording and you're sharing and you're playing back and people are on video, can you tell me a little bit about how you deal with maybe concerns about things like nurse consent or data security around your actual recordings and, your usage of the video? 00:13:00:06 - 00:13:30:20 Unknown Sure. So at Memorial Hermann, safe is our first service standard, and that includes psychological safety, physical safety, but also cyber safety, data security, everything that you just mentioned. And so we take that very seriously. And so from a data security perspective, we actually ended up installing a firewall in our simulation space. And so everything is put in behind a firewall instead of going on to one of our servers directly. 00:13:31:03 - 00:14:05:07 Unknown Right. Only because of, just the inherent safety that that firewall brings. As we are continuously bringing in new technology. So not just for one product necessarily, but as we come, into this space fully and we're testing new technologies for the first time, it gives us protection behind that firewall to do so. Then that pre brief process is really where we have the safety from a nursing perspective or a participate perspective, regardless of what discipline they're with. 00:14:05:08 - 00:14:38:06 Unknown And so going through that pre brief process is really important too. And for ours we don't keep the video recording. So once that educational scenario is complete we do the debrief and the class is done for the day. We go ahead and delete that data. Others can save it for for longer periods of times. And I know different health care providers or academic partners might approach that differently, but that works for our process. 00:14:38:06 - 00:15:08:06 Unknown And so and I think it also helps if a learner is concerned of making a mistake on camera or anything like that, that helps them know it's just for learning. It's not necessarily to talk through their evaluation in terms of performance evaluation for their job, but it's more of a learning and competency tool for us. That's great. I could definitely see that kind of easing someone's tension on actually being on recording like, no, no, we're going to record this right now. 00:15:08:08 - 00:15:27:17 Unknown We're going to debrief and then it's going to be gone. And you could try it again. Exactly. Their manager doesn't have to see it. Right. It's just for that learning purpose. That's great. I do want to get into what I think was one of the main topics we want to talk to you too, about today. If any of our listeners were to Google Caitlin's name, they're going to come across HEAL High School. 00:15:27:19 - 00:15:48:04 Unknown So in reading that, we see you work closely with Bloomberg Philanthropies and is it Aldine ISD? So the name of the school? Yes, it is build, HEAL High school. So you guys offer hands on and training and career pathways. Can you, can you talk to us about HEAL today? Sure. So HEAL is one of my favorite topics. 00:15:48:04 - 00:16:24:01 Unknown So we partnered with Aldine ISD to develop HEAL High School, which is a health care focused high school. And we are one of ten geographies that Bloomberg Philanthropies has supported with their $250 million grant initiative across the geographies to stand up these health care focused high schools. So Aldine Independent School District is a large school district in the greater Houston community, and we are partnering with them to open HEAL, which is health, education and learning. 00:16:24:03 - 00:16:58:08 Unknown Inside HEAL we have five health care pathways. We have nursing, physical and occupational therapies, pharmacy, imaging and health care, business administration. So just as much as we have the clinical pathways, we have a non-clinical, more health care business focused one. And I think that's also really important because it takes all of us across the health care continuum to provide the services that we do at hospitals and outpatient clinics within HEAL 00:16:58:08 - 00:17:28:11 Unknown We have students through ninth through 12th grade. We are starting with ninth graders. So this school year just launched and we have ninth and 10th graders. Now with that, now we have our first group of ninth graders have become 10th graders. They'll graduate in May of 2028. So we're slowly bringing in students year over year. But what I love about HEAL is it's not just health care curriculum in high school. 00:17:28:13 - 00:18:05:08 Unknown It's so much more than that. We have the health care curriculum, but we've also infused health care in their standard curriculum. So when they're in algebra class, they're calculating drip rates. For example, when they're writing an English paper, they're talking about hospital ethics or maybe a medical ethics case. So it's really a deep immersion. We also have them come to our hospitals and do hospital based learning every year from ninth through 12th grades, and that gets them to be able to see in action what they're learning in the classroom. 00:18:05:10 - 00:18:33:01 Unknown It also helps them get exposed to health care and helps them understand if that's really the pathway for them. And so they get to see it in action. They also come to our Institute for Nursing Excellence and our simulation lab, so they get to experience it as well. We have so many other components of it, but one of the the areas that I'm most excited about, we are actually building a mock hospital inside the school building. 00:18:33:05 - 00:19:09:16 Unknown Wow so every pathway will have its own lab space. Then we also have a mock hospital, so the students pathway can practice their skills in their own labs, and then they can come together as the multidisciplinary team in the mock hospital. And that student can be the nurse for the day, or the pharmacist or the physical therapist, and they get to interact and see what it's actually like in those roles and take what they've learned in their classroom, what they've seen in the hospital, and package it all together in the mock hospital space. 00:19:09:18 - 00:19:35:10 Unknown And it's actually our Memorial Hermann construction team doing the work. So everything is going to mirror a Memorial Hermann hospital. So it's really, again, going to be a nice immersive learning space for them. And we're going to have that same audio video technology that we talked about from the Nursing Institute in the mock hospital, as well as high fidelity manikins. 00:19:35:12 - 00:20:08:19 Unknown So we'll be able to move students through and do the pre brief simulation and debrief processes to help them continue to learn. That's all very wild. And that that that's this is incredible. I could probably ask you a thousand more questions just about here. I'll, I'll just throw a couple at you because, you know, we want to kind of focus on, the usage of video, but, can you talk just a little bit about, like, the, the origin of this, where, where, where was the need? 00:20:08:19 - 00:20:39:01 Unknown Was it because of nursing shortages, or was it just like, because you wanted to have better prepared nurses? Like what? How did this all come to to start really the credit with starting it goes to Bloomberg Philanthropies. They had a vision to create these health care focused high schools across the country to help address the shortages. The nursing shortage, I think, has been well published and on media and everything else, and rightfully so. 00:20:39:01 - 00:21:18:05 Unknown But we also have shortages in other disciplines and for other healthcare providers, too. And so it really was encouraging to see and, organizations such as Bloomberg Philanthropies to have this opportunity. It was an invite only grant opportunity. And so we were one of a handful of geographies that were invited to participate in the grant process. We had about ten weeks to draft the proposal, really bring HEAL high school to life, at least on paper and in pictures, walk through the grant process. 00:21:18:07 - 00:21:46:13 Unknown And then when we were fortunate enough to be awarded for it, that's when the real work began to get it stood up. And so we partnered across Memorial Hermann and then also across Aldine ISD to make this become a reality. And it's been an incredible journey. So I'm very interested in the personnel as well, both on the education staff and the students. 00:21:46:14 - 00:22:19:19 Unknown Who are the teachers? So for HEAL, there are high school teachers at Aldine. I didn't know that they were nurses originally. If they're going to put that spin on like the curriculum or. Yeah, a little bit. So they have the career and technical education pathways. Those teachers, several of them have backgrounds in clinical areas and then on the Memorial Hermann side, we have hired and developed five educator roles specific to HEAL high school. 00:22:19:21 - 00:22:47:21 Unknown So we have an educator for every pathway who is an expert clinician in that space. So our nursing pathway has a nurse, our, pharmacy pathway has a pharmacist, etc.. And so they're able to also bring in that level of realism, so to speak, in that clinical knowledge and clinical excellence to the curriculum. So they partner with the school and our teachers at the school to develop the curriculum. 00:22:48:01 - 00:23:21:04 Unknown Everything, of course, meets Texas state standards. Right. And so it's kind of building on top of that base standard. And then our educators are pivotal for when we're doing the hospital based learning activities or the simulation activities, because they're pairing it with what they've learned in the classroom and really building on top of those skills. It's also a really important way that we're able to work in professional development with the students as well. 00:23:21:06 - 00:23:45:07 Unknown They're high school students, right? So we're teaching them professional development along the way, how to dress in a hospital, how to behave in a hospital, how to greet individuals that you may not know when you are walking towards them in a hallway, how you knock on a patient's door, open the door, introduce yourself and greet them and start that conversation. 00:23:45:09 - 00:24:14:02 Unknown And that can be really hard to do for anybody, especially new health care providers and high school students, because you're interacting with individuals on their worst days when they're in the hospital and they don't feel well. And so being able to help coach them on that level of empathy and compassion, and just some of those things that we may take for granted on a day to day basis as health care providers. 00:24:14:04 - 00:24:41:01 Unknown But again, it's where having the immersive learning space is so helpful because we can video them and they can watch it back, and then we can point out those little things, because it's one thing to learn a technical, hands on skill. It's another thing to apply it in a way that you're interacting with another human being, explaining it to them, and then bringing it all together. 00:24:41:01 - 00:25:07:20 Unknown Right. And then you add time management and prioritization and critical thinking on top of that to bring the whole package together. And so again, I think that's why it's so important to be able to record those scenarios and use it during that debrief process, because you can show them how all of those components come together. Be interesting to give it, you know, ten years, and you'll have these people in the workforce who who came up on things like this. 00:25:07:20 - 00:25:30:02 Unknown You'll have this whole crew of potential health care workers who are used to working in some labs and being recorded and pre and debriefing, which is something that the majority of us in workforce currently did not come up on. So that's that's pretty amazing. Now last question kind of about HEAL because again, I want to stick to the concept of video, but I'm very interested in the students. 00:25:30:02 - 00:25:53:20 Unknown So, how does a ninth grade student know that they're going they want to go to a health care focused high school. How many students are there? Is there some sort of process to let them know, like what you're really getting into here? Yeah, it's a great question. We didn't have anything like this when I was going to high school. 00:25:54:00 - 00:26:19:16 Unknown And so it's hard for me to imagine what it's like for an eighth grader to be deciding, I want to go into health care versus construction or aviation or, you know, or any other discipline. Right. But, they have classes in middle school that helps introduce them to different industries and different careers in the state of Texas, and it may be other places as well. 00:26:19:18 - 00:26:53:13 Unknown They do that career exploration, and then they're able to choose more specific CTE classes when they're in high school, depending on the school district and what's available. And so in Aldine, HEAL has really expanded their health care offerings. So we're working to really build that education in for the eighth graders. We're also working with our amazing marketing and communications teams and our video team at Memorial Hermann to showcase a day in the life of a health care provider. 00:26:53:18 - 00:27:25:04 Unknown So we can bring to life what a pharmacist does. For example, because most students have a concept of a doctor or a nurse, they may not have an accurate portrayal, right? They may just see what they see on TV. But in general, most have an idea of a doctor or nurse, but not necessarily a physical therapist or an occupational therapist or that imaging technician, or the difference between somebody who does X-rays and somebody who does an MRI. 00:27:25:06 - 00:27:48:03 Unknown And so we're trying to bring that to life for them visually, to help them see themselves in those roles and understand, is this really the path for me? And is this where I'm interested and so once they decide that it's a lottery system, it's one of Aldine's choice schools. So the students can select their top three choices for their schools. 00:27:48:03 - 00:28:14:15 Unknown Heal is one of those choices, and it's a pure lottery. So it doesn't matter on their grades or their attendance or anything like that. It's pure lottery. Aldine has been an incredible partner, and so the first round of the lottery is for their students in their district. Then they've also opened it up to students in other districts. And students or children of Memorial Hermann employees. 00:28:14:16 - 00:28:41:04 Unknown And so they've really expanded the access to HEAL High school. But in terms of volume, so per grade level, we have 190 students. So when you look at grades ninth through 12th all together we can accommodate up to 760 to really almost 800 students. That's many more. It's okay. Yes. Yeah. It's quite large, which is an incredible opportunity. 00:28:41:05 - 00:29:07:07 Unknown Sure is. So I mean, it sounds like you're doing some, some amazing things, but I'm sure this all took lots of planning and some trial and error. I'd love to hear if you have any sort of, challenges that you had to overcome. Lessons learned through all this, either at the Institute of Nursing Excellence or at HEAL that, you know, other people that are trying to do something similar to you could could learn from there are always lessons learned. 00:29:07:08 - 00:29:33:16 Unknown Right? And anything that we do, I think first and foremost is again, getting the right key stakeholders involved from the very beginning and having the different perspectives, and then also being really thoughtful and intentional on how you layer the different components together. So what is the foundation? What is the vision for that space or the school in this case or the institute? 00:29:33:18 - 00:30:03:02 Unknown And how do we layer everything together? And I think that's so important because when we were first designing the Institute for Nursing Excellence space, you know, we thought we had some really good ideas. But then before we started actually going down the implementation planning process for the technology components and where is everything going to go when we really mapped it out, we found, oh, we're missing a few critical components. 00:30:03:02 - 00:30:29:12 Unknown We didn't think about if we're going to do, for example, an interdisciplinary simulation where we want to use the wider space, or if we have an overflow in terms of volume, what does that look like in our space? We have a nurses station in that corner of the V, and then we have another nurses station back in the ICU, wing, but not necessarily on the other side. 00:30:29:14 - 00:31:02:06 Unknown So as we're simulating realistic scenarios, how does that play in? It’s some of those small details that I think are easy to overlook, but so critical in the planning process. At heal, for example, it's an interesting mix because our Memorial Hermann team is leading the construction, but at the school it's all on Aldine’s network. So it's Aldine’s cables that they have to run, Aldine’s security standards and things of that nature. 00:31:02:06 - 00:31:41:17 Unknown And so again, just making sure that we're not making assumptions on some of the things that just because we did it one way at the Nursing Institute doesn't mean it's an exact replica at HEAL High School, because of some of those things. And so really being thoughtful in the planning process, even if we don't have a tremendously long lead time at HEAL we had a fairly short lead time to get things up and running, and so we had to be really careful in that too, because as you move so quickly, it's easier to make mistakes or to leave out a key stakeholder. 00:31:41:18 - 00:32:03:19 Unknown But, I think for us that's been the biggest piece of it. We're we're kind of getting towards the end here. Is there anything that, that we didn't chat about today that you'd, you'd like to talk about either your work at Memorial Hermann or anything to do with heal again, as it relates to to using video, within your role. 00:32:03:21 - 00:32:45:05 Unknown You know, one, one neat way we set up in our six bed ICU with the High Fidelity, where we have the audio video technology, was that we could run one scenario in one room. We could run separate scenarios across all six rooms, or we can run a cohesive scenario across all six rooms. And having the right audio video set up has been really helpful for that, as was understanding the space and the environment, and that planning process was so critical to support that. 00:32:45:07 - 00:33:09:16 Unknown And so it allows us to one get a larger number of of students or participants through at any given time because they don't have to run the different or they don't have to run the same scenario. So we can have a neonatal intensive care group in. We can have an ECMO group working on an adult, and then we can have a pediatric group all at the same time. 00:33:09:18 - 00:33:33:17 Unknown But the value of being able to bring it all together helps us support learners when they're learning. That time management piece. So then now we can replicate a nurse with a 1 to 6 patient ratio. So in an ICU setting that nurse would have two patients to manage at the same time. In an IMU it's three patients typically. 00:33:33:19 - 00:34:04:04 Unknown And then in an acute care med surg floor it could be between 4 and 6 patients that that nurse is managing. And so we're able to use the space in a variety of ways to support those different needs. Just earlier this week we did it where we were replicating an IMU environment for the full unit, where we had people playing resident physicians and an attending physician, and the bedside nurse and the charge nurse and the nurse manager and a precept. 00:34:04:06 - 00:34:44:03 Unknown And it like as a new grad nurse. And so we were running in all of the rooms. But because of the technology and how we've set up the environment, it's really helped us create that flexibility. And so I think that's just where I always encourage team members to think larger and think longer term. So we can always include that scale and sustainability from the beginning, and that helps us not only in the long term, but it helps us support our team members and our employees and our students in ways that we wouldn't have necessarily thought when we were first planning it out. 00:34:44:04 - 00:35:07:09 Unknown That's great. That's that's some fantastic advice. Caitlin if any of our listeners had questions about anything you said today or they want to get in touch with you, is there a way that they could do that? Sure. They could absolutely find my LinkedIn profile or email me at Caitlin.McVey@memorialhermann.org. Thank you so much for joining me today. 00:35:07:09 - 00:35:11:10 Unknown Caitlin. I really appreciate your time. Thank you for having me. 00:35:13:02 - 00:35:25:03 Unknown On Record is a podcast presented by Intelligent Video Solutions, hosted by Mike Anzalone and Andy Simmons and produced by Kyle Shelstad. Find us online at ipivs.com/onrecord and on social media at Intelligent Video Solutions.